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Going Deeper part 14 Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged. Part 1 \| Part 2 \| Part 3 \| Part 4 \| Part 5 \| Part 6 \| Part 7 \| Part 8 \| Part 9 \| Part 10 \| Part 11 \| Part 12 \| Part 13 \| Part 14 Part 15 \| Part 16 \| Part 17 \| Part 18 \| Part 19 \| Part 20 \| Part 21 \| Part 22 \| Part 23 \| Part 24 \| Part 25 \| Part 26 Communion & Communication Speaker: The idea that you brought up about the body as a temple for the Holy Spirit is an important thing. In the Bible the temple is referred to as the temple of the Holy Ghost and this is a starting point and a stepping stone. It’s definitely a step away from making the body evil. It’s one thing to call the body unreal or nothing but the ego would take the step to say that the body is evil. The important part and first step is to see that the body can be used by the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit’s purpose. In that sense and in that sense only is the body a temple. But it has nothing to do with the body in and of itself. It has to do with the intention or the purpose in mind and we could say that a body that is used solely for communication is a body used by the Holy Spirit. Participant: And then we get into a whole discussion of communication. That communication isn’t necessarily what I have been educated to believe it is. Communication does not have to include two bodies; communication happens at a mind level and that’s the only place where it happens. So why do I need a body to communicate if it only happens at the mind level? Speaker: Every mind that seems to believe in the world believes in separation and the body and believes that communication has been limited. Communion or mind communication, you might even call it telepathy, has been blocked and has been pushed out of awareness. So the body has literally been imposed as a limit on communication. It really appears in this world that if two bodies aren’t together that communication is limited, in other words they can’t talk to each other unless they use telephone or a walkie-talkie or some kind of aid. They need material aids to help the communication. But in the ultimate sense we’re back to the belief. When the body is believed in; when the world is believed in, the world was made as a limit on communication, the world was made to defend against communication. That is because the Holy Spirit is our communication link with the Father and the world was made to cover over that. So the Holy Spirit has to work with the lower mind and the beliefs and ask the mind let go of its beliefs in the world. It appears gradually that powers of the mind are returned to it; telepathy and clairvoyance and intuitions and so on seem to be more prevalent to the mind when actually the mind is just returning to its natural condition. These are not super powers that rare individuals can develop; these are very natural communication devices. Participant: So the communication is always there and has always been there? But it’s covered over so there’s an unawareness of it. Speaker: Yes and it’s such a strong investment in the body that does this. The body is the chosen home of the deceived mind and obviously we can get back to the purposes whereas the communication is the sole function, the sole purpose for the body for the Holy Spirit. The ego uses it for pride, pleasure and attack and those are different purposes that actually constrain communication. Participant: Ok so before we get into the pride, pleasure and attack that are the ego uses for the body we could complete the Holy Spirit’s use for the body. My question was if communication is solely at a mind level, why have a body to be used for communication? And I think what I hear you say is that as long as the mind believes in the body then the Holy Spirit uses that body for communication. It’s only the belief in the body that has the body entering into the communication at all, because without that belief there would be that full, total awareness that there is the communication already, at the mind level? Speaker: Yes, there are no bodies in the Holy Instant. Revelation is beyond bodies, it’s direct communication from God to God’s creation and it’s light. The attraction of the Holy Instant is when the mind gives up its false ideas and false beliefs and judgments and is drawn into the Holy Instant where communication is completely restored. The Holy Spirit will reach a mind that is deceived and believes in the world and in bodies in whatever way that He can. Bodies are like symbols and the Holy Spirit can come through the voice of a friend that you’re speaking to, as well as in a sign of a billboard or in a record lyric and so on. There are many ways and many forms for reaching the mind and the body is a symbol and the Holy Spirit is using symbols to reach the deceived mind because the deceived mind believes in symbols. And also at a metaphorical sense as we move forward in this we get clearer and clearer and we’re able to line up with the Holy Spirit’s purpose. We are asked to reach our brothers who believe in the world, who believe in time, who believe in separation. Participant: Who believe in the body? Speaker: Yes, and reach them using symbols that they can hear and that they can understand. And we have Jesus as a great example of that. He spoke in parables to the masses and spoke of higher ideals and concepts particularly when he spoke to the apostles and the disciples and those who had the ears to hear. In both cases the Holy Spirit was speaking through him using symbols to reach the mind at a place where it can grasp it. We also have examples of Jesus going off into communion with the Father; into the silence, or there’re various texts like for example the Aquarian gospel, where he talked about going into the silence with the silent brotherhood for a period of days; into a silent communion where not a word was spoken. So here we have a range of what we would call communication with words, which is still very crude, but as the mind let go of the beliefs we come back to communion which is wordless. Participant: The Holy Spirit really uses everything. That he uses it all within the illusion as symbols, right? Speaker: Yes, but it’s interesting too, to say that the Holy Spirit uses the symbols of the world can still bring the sense that the Holy Spirit is working in the world. Participant: And that the Holy Spirit is external to my mind and that somehow there is a distinction between the inner and outer and that he is in the outer and I’m in the inner. Speaker: Yes. That’s a common thing to a mind that believes it is in the world, first it has no conception of the inner life. It’s so convinced about the concrete and the specific that it needs specific symbols. Those symbols can take many forms as we’ve talked about, it can be appearances by angels… and all kinds of different voices and so on, near death experiences etc. However, if we pull it back and really see that the Holy Spirit is the light, the abstract light in the mind that literally the Holy Spirit is working with the lower mind or the beliefs, so when the mind starts to open up to the light and starts to let go of some beliefs in limits and concepts that it has placed on itself then the symbols appear and are perceived by the mind and it can appear as if there’s something external that’s tinkering with the world and giving me parking spaces or providing me rent money on the last day when I needed or so on. It can seem that these things are happening to me and he is literally going before and making straight my way me and leaving no stones to trip on which is a passage from the Course and this is a perception of a mind that believes in the world and it’s kind of a gentle comfort, as if things are being provided when actually the mind is simply laying aside beliefs and it’s perceiving a world in which things seem to be taken care of and flowing. Participant: So the Holy Spirit is not working in the world within the illusion but working within the mind and then the mind’s perception of the world changes accordingly, though it seems that the Holy Spirit had a direct effect on something in the world, when actually the direct effect is merely on the mind that outpictures the world. Speaker: Yes. It’s an interpretation, definitely. It can seem as if things are clicking in now whereas things before seemed like an uphill struggle and actually, the mind is just opening to the guidance and following the guidance. Participant: Is that an indication of a greater receptivity in the mind to be directed? Speaker: Yes. It’s symbolic. Participant: Let us go back to the ego’s use for the body; pride, pleasure and attack. Do you want to address those? Speaker: Yes, we can take them one at a time. Pride gets to a topic we were talking about yesterday; the subject/object split or the belief in personhood. All pride really comes down to a desperate attempt to maintain a belief in personhood of being an individual person and actually perceiving other individual persons which keeps that split between self and other in the mind, it reinforces that split. So in a sense of drawing attention to one’s self, one uses pride in accomplishments, past accomplishments, pride in physique, pride in the way one looks, pride in ones country, pride in ones sports team, pride in ones’ family and so on. A lot of those things are considered very good. Participant: Talk about spiritual pride. Speaker: Spiritual pride would in a sense be taking a pride in what one knows, to turn the spiritual journey into a booklearning feat or into a display of abilities with the intention underneath still to draw attention to the small self; a motive to draw attention to the personhood. This is a very subtle trap that we could talk about. This is when people haven’t let go of their belief in separation in the mind and when they use psychic abilities like telepathy, levitation, psycho kinesis, or different types of seeming powers, and if the mind is latching on to that with kind of, “look at me, look what I can do” and the I is still the little I, the I is still the personal I. You could have it in a sense of becoming a lecturer or a workshop leader or becoming known as a healer; when it gets personified, when the mind identifies with a person as being the focal point of that, that ‘I’ am the healer, then in a sense it’s still trying to draw attention to itself. It’s not doing as Jesus did – pointing to Heaven, saying it’s the Father, it’s not I that speak, but the Father, it’s not I that is the source of healing but the Father in Heaven. He always was pointing to the Father, always taking the second place, always “I am the Creation; the Father is the Creator”. And this is the sense of true humility of a mind that knows what it is. It knows what its source is. And it isn’t taking over the king pin role of being the centre of the universe in the sense of a personal thought-form-self as being the centre. It’s always pointing to the Father. So spiritual pride could come in many different ways, and shapes and forms, it can be identification with a particular spiritual group or sometimes they’re called cults. And there’s an identity there; we know the way; we’ve got the way and the rest of the world doesn’t. This is another spiritual trap among many that still attempts to identify with a small I; a personal self. Pleasure; pleasure is part of the world of duality again. You could speak of pleasure-pain, the two extremes, both equally unreal, both defenses against the truth in a sense that both are useful techniques for the ego, in terms of making the body real and maintaining the body identity. Once again, the mind can perceive the flesh or recognize the Spirit but it is one or the other, they are mutually exclusive in awareness. So that if one is aware of the body and if one is aware of the world and so on then the recognition of the Spirit is kept from awareness. Continue to Part 15
Home \| About this Website \| Study Materials \| Contact \| Donate \| Order Materials You are welcome to share the ideas offered here. If you would like to participate in distributing these materials please contact us. We love to hear from you.


Home \|\| About this Website \|\| Study Materials \|\| Contact \|\| Donate \|\| Order Materials
Laying the Foundation \|\| Unlearning the World \|\| Transfer of Training
Going Deeper part 14 Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged. Part 1 \| Part 2 \| Part 3 \| Part 4 \| Part 5 \| Part 6 \| Part 7 \| Part 8 \| Part 9 \| Part 10 \| Part 11 \| Part 12 \| Part 13 \| Part 14 Part 15 \| Part 16 \| Part 17 \| Part 18 \| Part 19 \| Part 20 \| Part 21 \| Part 22 \| Part 23 \| Part 24 \| Part 25 \| Part 26 Communion & Communication Speaker: The idea that you brought up about the body as a temple for the Holy Spirit is an important thing. In the Bible the temple is referred to as the temple of the Holy Ghost and this is a starting point and a stepping stone. It’s definitely a step away from making the body evil. It’s one thing to call the body unreal or nothing but the ego would take the step to say that the body is evil. The important part and first step is to see that the body can be used by the Holy Spirit for the Holy Spirit’s purpose. In that sense and in that sense only is the body a temple. But it has nothing to do with the body in and of itself. It has to do with the intention or the purpose in mind and we could say that a body that is used solely for communication is a body used by the Holy Spirit. Participant: And then we get into a whole discussion of communication. That communication isn’t necessarily what I have been educated to believe it is. Communication does not have to include two bodies; communication happens at a mind level and that’s the only place where it happens. So why do I need a body to communicate if it only happens at the mind level? Speaker: Every mind that seems to believe in the world believes in separation and the body and believes that communication has been limited. Communion or mind communication, you might even call it telepathy, has been blocked and has been pushed out of awareness. So the body has literally been imposed as a limit on communication. It really appears in this world that if two bodies aren’t together that communication is limited, in other words they can’t talk to each other unless they use telephone or a walkie-talkie or some kind of aid. They need material aids to help the communication. But in the ultimate sense we’re back to the belief. When the body is believed in; when the world is believed in, the world was made as a limit on communication, the world was made to defend against communication. That is because the Holy Spirit is our communication link with the Father and the world was made to cover over that. So the Holy Spirit has to work with the lower mind and the beliefs and ask the mind let go of its beliefs in the world. It appears gradually that powers of the mind are returned to it; telepathy and clairvoyance and intuitions and so on seem to be more prevalent to the mind when actually the mind is just returning to its natural condition. These are not super powers that rare individuals can develop; these are very natural communication devices. Participant: So the communication is always there and has always been there? But it’s covered over so there’s an unawareness of it. Speaker: Yes and it’s such a strong investment in the body that does this. The body is the chosen home of the deceived mind and obviously we can get back to the purposes whereas the communication is the sole function, the sole purpose for the body for the Holy Spirit. The ego uses it for pride, pleasure and attack and those are different purposes that actually constrain communication. Participant: Ok so before we get into the pride, pleasure and attack that are the ego uses for the body we could complete the Holy Spirit’s use for the body. My question was if communication is solely at a mind level, why have a body to be used for communication? And I think what I hear you say is that as long as the mind believes in the body then the Holy Spirit uses that body for communication. It’s only the belief in the body that has the body entering into the communication at all, because without that belief there would be that full, total awareness that there is the communication already, at the mind level? Speaker: Yes, there are no bodies in the Holy Instant. Revelation is beyond bodies, it’s direct communication from God to God’s creation and it’s light. The attraction of the Holy Instant is when the mind gives up its false ideas and false beliefs and judgments and is drawn into the Holy Instant where communication is completely restored. The Holy Spirit will reach a mind that is deceived and believes in the world and in bodies in whatever way that He can. Bodies are like symbols and the Holy Spirit can come through the voice of a friend that you’re speaking to, as well as in a sign of a billboard or in a record lyric and so on. There are many ways and many forms for reaching the mind and the body is a symbol and the Holy Spirit is using symbols to reach the deceived mind because the deceived mind believes in symbols. And also at a metaphorical sense as we move forward in this we get clearer and clearer and we’re able to line up with the Holy Spirit’s purpose. We are asked to reach our brothers who believe in the world, who believe in time, who believe in separation. Participant: Who believe in the body? Speaker: Yes, and reach them using symbols that they can hear and that they can understand. And we have Jesus as a great example of that. He spoke in parables to the masses and spoke of higher ideals and concepts particularly when he spoke to the apostles and the disciples and those who had the ears to hear. In both cases the Holy Spirit was speaking through him using symbols to reach the mind at a place where it can grasp it. We also have examples of Jesus going off into communion with the Father; into the silence, or there’re various texts like for example the Aquarian gospel, where he talked about going into the silence with the silent brotherhood for a period of days; into a silent communion where not a word was spoken. So here we have a range of what we would call communication with words, which is still very crude, but as the mind let go of the beliefs we come back to communion which is wordless. Participant: The Holy Spirit really uses everything. That he uses it all within the illusion as symbols, right? Speaker: Yes, but it’s interesting too, to say that the Holy Spirit uses the symbols of the world can still bring the sense that the Holy Spirit is working in the world. Participant: And that the Holy Spirit is external to my mind and that somehow there is a distinction between the inner and outer and that he is in the outer and I’m in the inner. Speaker: Yes. That’s a common thing to a mind that believes it is in the world, first it has no conception of the inner life. It’s so convinced about the concrete and the specific that it needs specific symbols. Those symbols can take many forms as we’ve talked about, it can be appearances by angels… and all kinds of different voices and so on, near death experiences etc. However, if we pull it back and really see that the Holy Spirit is the light, the abstract light in the mind that literally the Holy Spirit is working with the lower mind or the beliefs, so when the mind starts to open up to the light and starts to let go of some beliefs in limits and concepts that it has placed on itself then the symbols appear and are perceived by the mind and it can appear as if there’s something external that’s tinkering with the world and giving me parking spaces or providing me rent money on the last day when I needed or so on. It can seem that these things are happening to me and he is literally going before and making straight my way me and leaving no stones to trip on which is a passage from the Course and this is a perception of a mind that believes in the world and it’s kind of a gentle comfort, as if things are being provided when actually the mind is simply laying aside beliefs and it’s perceiving a world in which things seem to be taken care of and flowing. Participant: So the Holy Spirit is not working in the world within the illusion but working within the mind and then the mind’s perception of the world changes accordingly, though it seems that the Holy Spirit had a direct effect on something in the world, when actually the direct effect is merely on the mind that outpictures the world. Speaker: Yes. It’s an interpretation, definitely. It can seem as if things are clicking in now whereas things before seemed like an uphill struggle and actually, the mind is just opening to the guidance and following the guidance. Participant: Is that an indication of a greater receptivity in the mind to be directed? Speaker: Yes. It’s symbolic. Participant: Let us go back to the ego’s use for the body; pride, pleasure and attack. Do you want to address those? Speaker: Yes, we can take them one at a time. Pride gets to a topic we were talking about yesterday; the subject/object split or the belief in personhood. All pride really comes down to a desperate attempt to maintain a belief in personhood of being an individual person and actually perceiving other individual persons which keeps that split between self and other in the mind, it reinforces that split. So in a sense of drawing attention to one’s self, one uses pride in accomplishments, past accomplishments, pride in physique, pride in the way one looks, pride in ones country, pride in ones sports team, pride in ones’ family and so on. A lot of those things are considered very good. Participant: Talk about spiritual pride. Speaker: Spiritual pride would in a sense be taking a pride in what one knows, to turn the spiritual journey into a booklearning feat or into a display of abilities with the intention underneath still to draw attention to the small self; a motive to draw attention to the personhood. This is a very subtle trap that we could talk about. This is when people haven’t let go of their belief in separation in the mind and when they use psychic abilities like telepathy, levitation, psycho kinesis, or different types of seeming powers, and if the mind is latching on to that with kind of, “look at me, look what I can do” and the I is still the little I, the I is still the personal I. You could have it in a sense of becoming a lecturer or a workshop leader or becoming known as a healer; when it gets personified, when the mind identifies with a person as being the focal point of that, that ‘I’ am the healer, then in a sense it’s still trying to draw attention to itself. It’s not doing as Jesus did – pointing to Heaven, saying it’s the Father, it’s not I that speak, but the Father, it’s not I that is the source of healing but the Father in Heaven. He always was pointing to the Father, always taking the second place, always “I am the Creation; the Father is the Creator”. And this is the sense of true humility of a mind that knows what it is. It knows what its source is. And it isn’t taking over the king pin role of being the centre of the universe in the sense of a personal thought-form-self as being the centre. It’s always pointing to the Father. So spiritual pride could come in many different ways, and shapes and forms, it can be identification with a particular spiritual group or sometimes they’re called cults. And there’s an identity there; we know the way; we’ve got the way and the rest of the world doesn’t. This is another spiritual trap among many that still attempts to identify with a small I; a personal self. Pleasure; pleasure is part of the world of duality again. You could speak of pleasure-pain, the two extremes, both equally unreal, both defenses against the truth in a sense that both are useful techniques for the ego, in terms of making the body real and maintaining the body identity. Once again, the mind can perceive the flesh or recognize the Spirit but it is one or the other, they are mutually exclusive in awareness. So that if one is aware of the body and if one is aware of the world and so on then the recognition of the Spirit is kept from awareness. Continue to Part 15
Home \| About this Website \| Study Materials \| Contact \| Donate \| Order Materials You are welcome to share the ideas offered here. If you would like to participate in distributing these materials please contact us. We love to hear from you.