Untitled Document


Home \|\| About this Website \|\| Study Materials \|\| Contact \|\| Donate \|\| Order Materials
Laying the Foundation \|\| Unlearning the World \|\| Transfer of Training
Going Deeper part 10 Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged. Part 1 \| Part 2 \| Part 3 \| Part 4 \| Part 5 \| Part 6 \| Part 7 \| Part 8 \| Part 9 \| Part 10 \| Part 11 \| Part 12 \| Part 13 \| Part 14 Part 15 \| Part 16 \| Part 17 \| Part 18 \| Part 19 \| Part 20 \| Part 21 \| Part 22 \| Part 23 \| Part 24 \| Part 25 \| Part 26 Real Relationship Participant: So, I want to go back to the relationship again and just take it from where we left it, because I feel like we kind of left it hanging. So having exposed relationship, where do I go from there? What do I do with this information? Because I am going to be in relationship. In a way it’s like I cannot not be in relationship, at least as the world defines it. I think another good thing to bring up is that I don’t really know what relationship is. I don’t remember my experience of relationship, which was relationship with the Father. That’s blurred in my mind. I don’t fully remember that. And that’s really what relationship is, not what I have defined as relationship in terms of this world. Speaker: So that’s a discovery in there because you have just made two statements. Your first statement that came out of your mouth was: “I guess everyone can’t help but be in relationship in this world” and so forth. And then the second statement you made was in a way something completely opposite of what you first said: “I don’t know what real relationship is”. And you see that there is an incongruity or an uncertainty there. It has to be one or the other. That either you understand relationship or you don’t. And the second part opens the mind to a willingness to learn or to allow the Holy Spirit to teach the real meaning of true relationships. So, the opportunity is here as we come together with a joining of mind instead of projecting out “I think I know what relationship is and I have a relationship with this friend or I have an intimate relationship with this person” , we can see that it’s a coming together; a gathering with that intent of “I don’t know; I want to learn; I want to see differently”. And it really is no different than anything that we’ve talked about today, since we’ve talked about the subject/object split. When there is a subject/object split, when the mind has split itself off into those two components, those two parts, then there is no relationship because mind has literally denied its identity. And only in its true identity is it in real relationship. Participant: So relationship mistakenly is associated with “twoness”? Real relationship can only be associated with oneness? I mean, you know, I’m talking about being in a relationship with someone else. There’s that twoness already. So I obviously don’t know what relationship is, if I’m thinking about it in terms of myself relating to someone else. Speaker: The twoness also, it comes down to the levels, in a sense that mind is one. That when we speak of mind as one we can still speak of causation, of cause and effect and someone could say, well, cause and effect, there’s twoness to that. But cause and effect are inseparable. To be an effect there has to be a cause. And to be a cause one has to have an effect. They’re interdependent in that sense and we’re getting into the realm of the mind and in Creation. The Father and Son are of one will and are of one mind. The Father is the Cause and the Son is the Effect. The Father is the Prime Creator and the Son is the Creation and the Son being like the Father is a co-creator or is capable of creating and extending his will as the Father did. We’re speaking in that sense of One Mind. There’s no distinction, there’s no distinctive difference between the Father and the Son other than the function of Creation; that the Father created the Son and the Son did not create the Father. Once we get into the projected realm of the error of separation projected out in the world then we have specifics. And then there’s the sense of duality and twoness in the world where we have specific differences. And that’s what relationship in this world is thought to be. Once again it’s a construct. It’s a relationship between my person and my house, my person and my wife’s personhood or children personhood, objects, my car, my school, my sportsteam, my clothes, my skills, my typingskills, my intelligence and on and on. There’s a separate sense of an individual self and all relationship in this world is special in that sense because it’s not really relationship at all, it’s thought-form-associations. It’s a relationship or a relative construct of meaning that really has no meaning at all. Participant: So, it’s holy relationship? Speaker: Well, holy relationship would be to remove, to step back into not judge the constructs, to withdraw the mind from that. And it’s still a metaphor, if you could think of two minds with one intent, with the purpose of consistently holding in mind that the entire world is a construct, of not letting anything come between them, so to speak. There is no personal interest, in the sense of a separate self but still using the word relationship in the sense as if there are persons. As you start to approach Holy Relationship it’s like each person looks within and sees the wholeness and completeness within themselves and therefore doesn’t feel lacking, doesn’t feel like they have got to get something that they have to bargain with the other person. Obviously this is still a concept and a construct because we’re still talking about personhood and persons. But it’s a very high construct because it’s not based on lack. It’s like a construct that’s pointing towards the resolution of subject and object. Participant: That would be one of those more helpful constructs. Speaker: Yes. A phenomenal learning accomplishment, as the course says. It takes a lot of mind training to give up ones investment in a personal small self and metaphorically, two people who have that as their focus or intention move towards that holy relationship where they give up all the bargains and the reciprocity, the seeking of someone to please them, to gratify them, or to satisfy them in some way. Participant: So the focus is solely on that one intent, and that’s how it’s possible not to have any personal interest enter into it? Speaker: Yes, the one intent to step back to be the observer, to not have personal interest. When differences do seem to come up or when the mind is upset, then that’s seen as an opportunity to openly talk about it. There’s a willingness to lay things out on the table and tell it as it’s perceived and to support each other and to seeing that that’s just another belief that I’m still holding on to, without attacking or defending the beliefs. That’s just kind of a laying it on the table and looking at it. In that sense that’s a metaphor of a way that relationship can be used as a helpful tool in awakening. Participant: So holy relationship is merely a reflection of that Father/Son relationship? Speaker: Yes. Like a miniature of that. Participant: So in terms of what to do with relationships, it’s the intention to let each one be a holy relationship? Speaker: Yes every one. Participant: And what if the other person isn’t aware of all this? It’s in my mind anyway, really? It’s not dependent on the other person obviously? Speaker: Every time I’m upset, I’ve projected. Anger is nothing more than an attempt to make someone else feel guilty. And every time I’m angry or upset with someone or something it’s an attempt to project the responsibility onto someone else, it’s an attempt to play the victim of external happenings again. And in a sense if seen right and correctly it’s a great opportunity to be grateful for the opportunity to see what’s going on. What am I buying into, what construct or thought-form-association is so important that I’m letting it stand in between my brother and myself or my awareness of my true self, Christ? If I’m offended by a partner or a lover or a friend, a neighbor or someone at work I’m offended in Christ. The Christ is always there in my awareness of it and whenever I am offended in anything, I have a belief, a grievance, a block in my own mind that I need to let go of, that I need to see as just a false idea that I do not need to invest in. So there’s a real gratefulness for what even the world calls relationship because it allows that opportunity to get in touch with that. If I get into the ascetic mode and I just want to run away from the world and not be around people and run to the mountains so to speak, it’s still an opportunity to practice mind watching and to go into the silence and to disidentify from the thoughts-forms of the world, but the relationship is a great time saver. It’s a great acceleration when I can use the seeming relationships of this world to help me get in touch with my beliefs and my concepts that I hold on to. Participant: And is a special hate relationship simply looking at that as an attack instead of looking at that as an opportunity? Isn’t that where a special hate relationship comes in? It’s where I feel undermined and that I’ve got something to loose and something to protect and defend that’s being attacked instead of seeing aha, this is another opportunity to get in touch with what that construct is that I’m invested in. Speaker: Well in a sense, special love relationships and those thought-form associations are just a different form, a masked form of hatred. It’s not like special hate relation is an attack and special love in some way isn’t. It’s just a different form. The special love relationship is very deceptive because it seems to be that you are complementing me, that you are agreeing with my views. You are bringing me pleasure. I love having you around in the special love relationship because you’re fulfilling needs and everything. But the flipside is always, since you are literally my substitute for God, if you heaven forbid change, you stop agreeing with me, you stop providing me with what I need, you change from what you have done in the past and deviate and do something different. For then the wrath of the ego comes up, even in the special love relationships, and breaks through, because the flipside of a complement is always a rejection. Both are unreal. The self that is been complemented is a construct as well and when you can start to see that they’re just two different forms of the same thing you can withdraw from investing in that. In the Urantia book it talks about it in several places and when the apostles describe Jesus they say he was very caring, a sense of real compassion and caring coming from him without flattery. You know in this world those are associated. With flattery ‘I love your hair’ or ‘I love those pants you’re wearing’, or those clothes or that car you drive or whatever is associated with caring. This is not true empathy. This is not true caring in the metaphysical truest sense. To accept someone regardless of their appearance, to look beyond the appearance and remember who they are is to just accept them for who they are; to not buy into the behaviors; to not buy into what they say or don’t say. Participant: Not to buy into any of the appearances. Speaker: Yes, because the appearances are the construct, the appearances are the veil. Participant: So to even complement someone on appearance is to reinforce that construct for them and for me, for my mind. Because by complementing you it reinforces in my mind, that you are what you appear to be, and therefore I am what I appear to be. Speaker: Yes, which is the body; the person in the world of guilt. Continue to Part 11
Home \| About this Website \| Study Materials \| Contact \| Donate \| Order Materials You are welcome to share the ideas offered here. If you would like to participate in distributing these materials please contact us. We love to hear from you.


Home \|\| About this Website \|\| Study Materials \|\| Contact \|\| Donate \|\| Order Materials
Laying the Foundation \|\| Unlearning the World \|\| Transfer of Training
Going Deeper part 10 Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged. Part 1 \| Part 2 \| Part 3 \| Part 4 \| Part 5 \| Part 6 \| Part 7 \| Part 8 \| Part 9 \| Part 10 \| Part 11 \| Part 12 \| Part 13 \| Part 14 Part 15 \| Part 16 \| Part 17 \| Part 18 \| Part 19 \| Part 20 \| Part 21 \| Part 22 \| Part 23 \| Part 24 \| Part 25 \| Part 26 Real Relationship Participant: So, I want to go back to the relationship again and just take it from where we left it, because I feel like we kind of left it hanging. So having exposed relationship, where do I go from there? What do I do with this information? Because I am going to be in relationship. In a way it’s like I cannot not be in relationship, at least as the world defines it. I think another good thing to bring up is that I don’t really know what relationship is. I don’t remember my experience of relationship, which was relationship with the Father. That’s blurred in my mind. I don’t fully remember that. And that’s really what relationship is, not what I have defined as relationship in terms of this world. Speaker: So that’s a discovery in there because you have just made two statements. Your first statement that came out of your mouth was: “I guess everyone can’t help but be in relationship in this world” and so forth. And then the second statement you made was in a way something completely opposite of what you first said: “I don’t know what real relationship is”. And you see that there is an incongruity or an uncertainty there. It has to be one or the other. That either you understand relationship or you don’t. And the second part opens the mind to a willingness to learn or to allow the Holy Spirit to teach the real meaning of true relationships. So, the opportunity is here as we come together with a joining of mind instead of projecting out “I think I know what relationship is and I have a relationship with this friend or I have an intimate relationship with this person” , we can see that it’s a coming together; a gathering with that intent of “I don’t know; I want to learn; I want to see differently”. And it really is no different than anything that we’ve talked about today, since we’ve talked about the subject/object split. When there is a subject/object split, when the mind has split itself off into those two components, those two parts, then there is no relationship because mind has literally denied its identity. And only in its true identity is it in real relationship. Participant: So relationship mistakenly is associated with “twoness”? Real relationship can only be associated with oneness? I mean, you know, I’m talking about being in a relationship with someone else. There’s that twoness already. So I obviously don’t know what relationship is, if I’m thinking about it in terms of myself relating to someone else. Speaker: The twoness also, it comes down to the levels, in a sense that mind is one. That when we speak of mind as one we can still speak of causation, of cause and effect and someone could say, well, cause and effect, there’s twoness to that. But cause and effect are inseparable. To be an effect there has to be a cause. And to be a cause one has to have an effect. They’re interdependent in that sense and we’re getting into the realm of the mind and in Creation. The Father and Son are of one will and are of one mind. The Father is the Cause and the Son is the Effect. The Father is the Prime Creator and the Son is the Creation and the Son being like the Father is a co-creator or is capable of creating and extending his will as the Father did. We’re speaking in that sense of One Mind. There’s no distinction, there’s no distinctive difference between the Father and the Son other than the function of Creation; that the Father created the Son and the Son did not create the Father. Once we get into the projected realm of the error of separation projected out in the world then we have specifics. And then there’s the sense of duality and twoness in the world where we have specific differences. And that’s what relationship in this world is thought to be. Once again it’s a construct. It’s a relationship between my person and my house, my person and my wife’s personhood or children personhood, objects, my car, my school, my sportsteam, my clothes, my skills, my typingskills, my intelligence and on and on. There’s a separate sense of an individual self and all relationship in this world is special in that sense because it’s not really relationship at all, it’s thought-form-associations. It’s a relationship or a relative construct of meaning that really has no meaning at all. Participant: So, it’s holy relationship? Speaker: Well, holy relationship would be to remove, to step back into not judge the constructs, to withdraw the mind from that. And it’s still a metaphor, if you could think of two minds with one intent, with the purpose of consistently holding in mind that the entire world is a construct, of not letting anything come between them, so to speak. There is no personal interest, in the sense of a separate self but still using the word relationship in the sense as if there are persons. As you start to approach Holy Relationship it’s like each person looks within and sees the wholeness and completeness within themselves and therefore doesn’t feel lacking, doesn’t feel like they have got to get something that they have to bargain with the other person. Obviously this is still a concept and a construct because we’re still talking about personhood and persons. But it’s a very high construct because it’s not based on lack. It’s like a construct that’s pointing towards the resolution of subject and object. Participant: That would be one of those more helpful constructs. Speaker: Yes. A phenomenal learning accomplishment, as the course says. It takes a lot of mind training to give up ones investment in a personal small self and metaphorically, two people who have that as their focus or intention move towards that holy relationship where they give up all the bargains and the reciprocity, the seeking of someone to please them, to gratify them, or to satisfy them in some way. Participant: So the focus is solely on that one intent, and that’s how it’s possible not to have any personal interest enter into it? Speaker: Yes, the one intent to step back to be the observer, to not have personal interest. When differences do seem to come up or when the mind is upset, then that’s seen as an opportunity to openly talk about it. There’s a willingness to lay things out on the table and tell it as it’s perceived and to support each other and to seeing that that’s just another belief that I’m still holding on to, without attacking or defending the beliefs. That’s just kind of a laying it on the table and looking at it. In that sense that’s a metaphor of a way that relationship can be used as a helpful tool in awakening. Participant: So holy relationship is merely a reflection of that Father/Son relationship? Speaker: Yes. Like a miniature of that. Participant: So in terms of what to do with relationships, it’s the intention to let each one be a holy relationship? Speaker: Yes every one. Participant: And what if the other person isn’t aware of all this? It’s in my mind anyway, really? It’s not dependent on the other person obviously? Speaker: Every time I’m upset, I’ve projected. Anger is nothing more than an attempt to make someone else feel guilty. And every time I’m angry or upset with someone or something it’s an attempt to project the responsibility onto someone else, it’s an attempt to play the victim of external happenings again. And in a sense if seen right and correctly it’s a great opportunity to be grateful for the opportunity to see what’s going on. What am I buying into, what construct or thought-form-association is so important that I’m letting it stand in between my brother and myself or my awareness of my true self, Christ? If I’m offended by a partner or a lover or a friend, a neighbor or someone at work I’m offended in Christ. The Christ is always there in my awareness of it and whenever I am offended in anything, I have a belief, a grievance, a block in my own mind that I need to let go of, that I need to see as just a false idea that I do not need to invest in. So there’s a real gratefulness for what even the world calls relationship because it allows that opportunity to get in touch with that. If I get into the ascetic mode and I just want to run away from the world and not be around people and run to the mountains so to speak, it’s still an opportunity to practice mind watching and to go into the silence and to disidentify from the thoughts-forms of the world, but the relationship is a great time saver. It’s a great acceleration when I can use the seeming relationships of this world to help me get in touch with my beliefs and my concepts that I hold on to. Participant: And is a special hate relationship simply looking at that as an attack instead of looking at that as an opportunity? Isn’t that where a special hate relationship comes in? It’s where I feel undermined and that I’ve got something to loose and something to protect and defend that’s being attacked instead of seeing aha, this is another opportunity to get in touch with what that construct is that I’m invested in. Speaker: Well in a sense, special love relationships and those thought-form associations are just a different form, a masked form of hatred. It’s not like special hate relation is an attack and special love in some way isn’t. It’s just a different form. The special love relationship is very deceptive because it seems to be that you are complementing me, that you are agreeing with my views. You are bringing me pleasure. I love having you around in the special love relationship because you’re fulfilling needs and everything. But the flipside is always, since you are literally my substitute for God, if you heaven forbid change, you stop agreeing with me, you stop providing me with what I need, you change from what you have done in the past and deviate and do something different. For then the wrath of the ego comes up, even in the special love relationships, and breaks through, because the flipside of a complement is always a rejection. Both are unreal. The self that is been complemented is a construct as well and when you can start to see that they’re just two different forms of the same thing you can withdraw from investing in that. In the Urantia book it talks about it in several places and when the apostles describe Jesus they say he was very caring, a sense of real compassion and caring coming from him without flattery. You know in this world those are associated. With flattery ‘I love your hair’ or ‘I love those pants you’re wearing’, or those clothes or that car you drive or whatever is associated with caring. This is not true empathy. This is not true caring in the metaphysical truest sense. To accept someone regardless of their appearance, to look beyond the appearance and remember who they are is to just accept them for who they are; to not buy into the behaviors; to not buy into what they say or don’t say. Participant: Not to buy into any of the appearances. Speaker: Yes, because the appearances are the construct, the appearances are the veil. Participant: So to even complement someone on appearance is to reinforce that construct for them and for me, for my mind. Because by complementing you it reinforces in my mind, that you are what you appear to be, and therefore I am what I appear to be. Speaker: Yes, which is the body; the person in the world of guilt. Continue to Part 11
Home \| About this Website \| Study Materials \| Contact \| Donate \| Order Materials You are welcome to share the ideas offered here. If you would like to participate in distributing these materials please contact us. We love to hear from you.